But really the foundation in Ayurveda is that food is your medicineand digesting your food. And so there are lots ofquotes and different sayings in Ayurveda about howimportant it is to eat properly and have good digestion. And that’s the core of your health. And then everything else is complimentary. But it’s a really richmedical healing system that’s really based onprevention as well as the root. And then there are lots of treatments for health conditions when they happen, but really the principlesare based on prevention and empowering peopleto be their own healer. – That’s the thing that Ithink that interested me when you and I first chatted is that Western medicine often deals with thesymptoms of the problem, you’re treating the symptoms. Whereas Ayurveda wouldsay that’s number six and we go back and start at step one. And I think that’s really fascinating, thinking about prevention or perhaps if you’re ona certain trajectory, it doesn’t mean that you’repredestined to end up there, you can take steps in yourdiet, in your activity in eliminating toxinsand so on to change that.And I think that’s really fascinating. Now tell us a little bit about what you do at the Gerson Institute. – Okay, at the Gerson Institute we’re a local nonprofit, and we have another anniversarywe’re actually celebrating, we’re 40 years old this year. We were developed as aneducation and training and information and referralagency for the work, to support people that would like tofollow Dr.Gerson’s work. He was trained as an internist, he was a neurosurgeon,he was a soil scientist in his own right. And he, even for a period of time served as the agricultural consultant to the Prussian government at that time and also the Bavarian government before he came to theUnited States in the ’30s. And he originally developedthe Gerson therapy to treat his own migraine headaches. And he did that through adietary elimination program. And then that progressed and developed to his using it to treat skintuberculosis at that time, and then developed intopulmonary tuberculosis.And soon after that, he was asked to also try it for cancer, which he refused at first because he said, “I know nothing about that.” He was starting to realize that he had a systemic program here. He came from the attitudeand the concept of totality. So he looked at everything. He looked at the air qualityissues, the water issues. Besides the nutrition, ithad to be fresh organic. He developed of course,individual protocols for people, but there were similarities. And some of the basics were just like salt restriction,potassium enhancement, some natural supplementation,protein restriction initially and continued to develop a program to treat very seriously ill people. So that’s where now trainingdoctors around the world in cyberspace, in thetele-education program and expanding our abilityto help more people. So it’s very exciting to see the interest coming from everywhere with not just that it’snecessary to eat healthy, but that it can reallybe used as a treatment for very, very serious illnesses to bring the body back into total balance and to move to a vibrancyand a vitality of life.- It’s been said that food can either be the bestmedicine or the slowest poison. And so we have a little yinand yang on this panel today to talk about both sides of that coin, because it’s important. As we talk about what you should choose, maybe sometimes we have to talk about what you should not choose. And depending on thediscipline or the focus, that answer may vary, but I wanna use it as a segueto my friend Zen over here to about the work that you do, Zen. – Oh, thank you so much. Well, I’m Zen Honeycuttfor Moms Across America, and we’re a nationalcoalition of unstoppable moms, and our motto is empoweredmoms, healthy kids. And we raise awarenessabout GMOs and toxins, all kinds of toxins fromall kinds of exposure.And we offer GMO-freeand organic solutions and through supporting local leadership, we are creating healthycommunities together in collaboration with manydifferent organizations. And that means offering free materials, supplies, training, talkingpoints to go to city council or join into Fourth of July parades, or to reach out to your fooddirector at your school. And so I’m very excited to connect with people fromall across the country. And now around the world, we have mothers across the world as well. And to see the results thatchildren are getting better, children are the mostvulnerable to these toxins, and they are getting betterby changes through diet. In fact, my three sons who are in the back are examples of that. They had life-threatening allergies. My son almost died from pecans in thestuffing on Thanksgiving and also autism symptoms,asthma and autoimmune issues. And all of them have recovered through using food intheir diet, eating organic, taking care of the gut biome, which I’m sure we’ll talk about.And so I know that wecan do this as a country. We can recover ourchildren and our families, and we can turn around the food industry and the health in our country. – Thank you. John, you also havesome background in GMO, but that’s in generallyyour scientific expertise, but you also have a laboratory. Tell me a little bit about what it is that the laboratory does. What is it testing forand how does it work and why, how does itrelate to what she’s doing? – Very good. What the Health ResearchInstitute is designed to do is to create transparencyin the food system so that everybody can make better choices about the food they eat, that has to do with the good things, the nutritional aspectsand also the bad things, the pesticides, the GMOs, all of those sorts of things, the heavy metal that might be there. And so what we do is we carry out testing, which then is used byorganizations, such as Zen’s and many others around the U.S. to inform the public about these issues. And our belief, and we’revery confident of this, is that when moms and dads have better knowledge aboutthe quality of their food, they can, and they willmake better choices about what they feed to their families.And that is going tohave a cascading effect all the way through the food system. It creates demand for better food. And ultimately, farmers are going to need to figure out ways, they’re very creative and innovative and ingenious individuals. And they’re gonna figure out ways to produce food withoutthese nasty chemicals that harm our physiology and produce food that is actually higherin nutritional value, because both of thosecan be really measured and connected with thepractices of agriculture. So that’s what we’re working on, healthy soil, healthyfood, healthy people. – So we’re dealing bothwith the soil microbiome, the gut microbiome, and sort of all of the effects that can have positive and/or negative in terms of overall health. Now, since we’re in the dirt, maybe we ought to go tothe farmer on the panel.Tell us a little bit about how you got into farmingfrom your last career. – So my name is Stepheni Norton, I’m the founding farmer of Dickinson Farm. This is nothing that my husbandand I ever expected to do, no where we expected to be. If I follow my originallife plan right now, I would be finishing up inKuwait and heading back. So I went to a deployment. Just prior in our pre-deployment work-ups, I was on San ClementeIsland, I got bit by a tick. Military medical system is amazing. If you’ve been shot or have abroken leg but anything else, they really don’t know how to deal with. So the medical systemlooked at me and said, “Well you have a plane to catch, and we have a deployment to go on.” So 10 months in another country, I was at Guantanamo Bay dealingwith the detention centers. There were days that I couldn’t walk. If I stayed standing,I could stay standing, but anytime I laid down to go to sleep, I couldn’t really move my body, and it just kept ongetting worse and worse.I came home and the attitude then was, now I could figure out what was going on. So I got bounced around toa whole bunch of doctors, and then finally landedwith a misdiagnosis, which landed me with an amazing doctor. So I’m very thankful. I had a misdiagnosis ofankylosing spondylitis, and the attitude was, it’s okay ’cause it’ll stop hurting whenyour spine fuses together. So we ended up with an amazingdoctor here in San Diego, who was considered the bestfor ankylosing spondylitis, and was gonna give me somewhat of a life. That day I could walk slightly. And I came in and hesaid, “You don’t have it. Pretty sure I know what you do have. We’re just gonna take some bloodand we’ll talk in a month.” And in that month I got married. We went on our honeymoon. I get teared up. About a week after we get the diagnosis, and that day I was told, “For the next two years, you’re gonna be in an IV chairand we’re gonna start today.” And I said, “No, no, no, no.I’m on active duty military. I have to run up, I have to tell my unit, like I can’t do this.” And the attitude was, “You’ll be here Monday, oryou’ll be in a hospital.” My bacterial load was active. Typically in remission for lime, your bacteria load is about less than 200, and mine was 27,000, so it was a petri dishundiagnosed in my tissues, my bone marrow. And we started IV therapy. He’s an amazing doctor, buthe said, “You’re gonna be mad. You’re gonna go home anddo whatever sailors do. You’re gonna drink, you’re gonna smoke,whatever you’re gonna do. But I’m gonna tell you, if you watch what you’re doing and you don’t inflame your body, anything more than whatlime is already doing, the medicine will work better, it’ll work quicker and youwon’t destroy yourself anymore because I’m gonna kill your immune system, I’m gonna kill everything in you to get rid of this bacteria.So if you do this, it’ll help you.” And he’s like, “Take a week, be angry. I’ll see you on Monday.” And we spent about threemonths dealing other, we did CSAs, we tried a personal chef. We tried all these things. And as a military family, we were like, “We’re gonna go broke. There’s no way.” My husband was on duty at nights and take me to treatment during the day.And out of desperation,I was finally like, I said to my doctor, “If I go vegetarian andjust grow my own food, can I do that? I don’t know how to be a vegetarian, can you tell me what I haveto eat to get through this?” And his answer was, “You think you wanna spend your time not here growing your own food.” And I was like, “Yeah,that’s completely rational.” He was like, “Don’t let her kill herself. Do whatever you’re gonna do.” My husband and my cousins and my dad built me some raised beds thatI could sit on the edge of. And in the evenings and weekends, I grew my own food with no experience. I’m from Orange County, my husband’s LA. It turned out very well. – You started a new program this year. – We did it. Tell us about Farmacy, I love this. – We started farming in ’14, we went to market in ’16. And then last year, I was talking with my nurseand just, “How are you? How’s the community,” that type of thing.And when we were talking, I was like, “Yeah, we’re selling to ourcommunity, our neighbors.” And she reminded me in theway that best nurses do that, “Your community is the people that sat next to you fortwo years in an IV chair Your community is the people that had the same struggles. And don’t forget that those people stillsit there every day, and new people still fill their chairs and they’re who need your food.” And we grow 100% heirloom. We don’t take anythingthat’s past World War II. We only use very, verylittle organic pesticides. And that’s when just the load is too high and we’re gonna lose the whole farm. And in four years, the only thing that we’vesprayed is organic copper. And we’re really considered of that for my health and our customer’s health. So after thinking about it,and I reached out to Christina and we had worked together before, and she does amazingwork with heirloom greens and heirloom vegetables and they do cook differentlyand she can work with them, and I was like, “Hey,I wanna do this thing.I wanna get our foodin front of patients.” and everything from the,I just got my diagnosis and I can’t even standup to cook for myself to the, ‘Hey I’m doing well, and I wanna get back tocooking for my family and everything in between.” So we launched it and it’s been amazing. – Thank you. Let me ask you something, Gordon. It’s been my understanding for a long time that nutrition wasn’t sort of part of the required curriculum for medical doctors. Is that still the case? – It’s changing, although gradually. – It seems a little counterintuitive. I’m just a lay person. – We got training inbiochemical nutrition. We all had to learn how to recite the Krebs cycle forwardsand backwards 16 times, but that has no clinicalpractical application. It’s found its way a little bit. Their teaching may be a littlemore about the epidemiology, the nutritional epidemiologyof heart disease, diabetes, some of the chronic diseases.- So how food relates to those specific . – [Gordon] Yes. – Don’t eat this, eat that. – And in some quarters,it’s just lip service and others there is an effort to try and ingrain it intowhat people do in practice. – How does that differ from what you do? – We are fully focused on using food, either as an adjunct or as thesole therapy for any patient, for any health conditionthat comes in the door. – You have something thatI’ve seen a pyramid of, what’s called or what youcall the therapeutic order.Most of us who’ve been tothe doctor, had a condition, we know that typically we’retold to take this medicine and/or potentially havethis invasive procedure. That’s not where you start. Where do you start? – So years ago when my dad was sick, when he had developed cancer and trying to find a way to help him and his doctors at JohnsHopkins told my family that he would likelydie in less than a year, I realized Western medicinedidn’t have the answer. And I just started searching, reading on the old microfilm machines and the bowels of JohnsHopkins medical library. And I came across- – Updating myself here. – Me too. – My eyes bugged out when Iread the story of a physician who had healed himself ofadvanced prostate cancer through a major change in his diet.And he was as skeptical as anybody, but he had this experience. And I found out about him, met him and met a community of folkswho were doing similar things. Part of me thought that, this is some kind of a strangecult that I’m slipping into, people who claim to be able to use food to treat all these diseases. And yet when I startedto change my own diet to have support for my dad, I realized, “Wow, I’m feelingbetter than ever in my life.” And I then learned that all the chronic healthconditions that we’re facing, the epidemic diseases, as well as the chronicones like heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, all have strong nutritionallinks, strong dietary factors.- It seems that food is somehow involved with the top two to threekillers that we know of diseases. How’s that differ or isthat similar to your work? – Yeah, absolutely. Again, it starts with thedigestion and the food. – What about digestion, ’cause that’s a specificfocus in Ayurveda. Tell us about that. – It’s very interesting because although food isthe most important factor. And in fact, I think Ihad sent you the quote, there’s an ancient proverb, and this is thousands of years old. When the diet is wrongthen medicine is of no use. And when diet is correctthen medicine is of no need. So there is this philosophy that, you have to eat properly. However, and we see this quite a bit, there are a lot of people who are eating what’sconsidered the right foods.In Ayurveda, we all havedifferent mind-body types. So I think that’s wherepeople struggle a bit. – No one-size-fits-all. – Exactly, yeah. And you really have to lookat everyone as an individual. The food should be organic and non-GMO from nature and all of those things, and then how you prepareit is very important as to how you’re gonna digest. – [Michelle] It’s raw or cooked. – Raw or cooked. And also there’s this principle of the six tastes in Ayurveda where in Western medicine,it’s very reductionist. We look at this one food and we say, “Oh, that’s carbohydrate, that’s bad.” But if you eat it with themicronutrients that you need and spices, and they don’thave to be hot spices, but just savory spices, that’s what helps you digest that food. So there’s this concept of how you’re going to digest the food.Are you optimizing your digestion? And a lot of the foods are all about, now we know with science, which has been reallyfun to do the science, that a lot of these healthy foods are shifting the microbiome, and they do most of the digesting for us. But in Ayurveda again, it’s the six tastes So we focus on macronutrients, which is what we learnedin medical school, carbohydrates, fats, proteins,how much do you need of that? Those are the energy foodsand they’re important, but that’s one taste in Ayurveda, and the other five are allabout the micronutrients. And what you’re putting in your food to support your own digestive process so that you don’t haveto take other things to help you digest your food. You’re optimizing your internalmechanisms for healing. And so when you combine a little bit of sourand a little bit of salt and the pungent, and thenthe bitter and astringent, those are all the micronutrients, then your body will- – This is all to improve digestion.- It helps you to improve the digestion so that you can extract thenutrients from the food. And also there’s this concept of synergy, even in food science now, where one plus one doesn’t just equal two, one plus one can equal 10. If you’re combiningfoods in the right way, there’s this concept of food synergy. So I think that’s what these, and a lot of other traditionalhealing systems recognize when a lot of ethnic cooking naturally has a lot of theseflavors all mixed together. And that’s what my mom did. She just knew what to put in the foods. She didn’t necessarilyknow it as a scientist, but she was a foodscientist in the kitchen. And so any food you made,you knew what to put in it.And then in my analytical mind, now I look at all theserecipes and I’m like, “Oh yeah, it’s got all the six tastes.” – There is a reason for it. – Yeah. And it’s interesting too, that each of those tasteshas a very specific purpose of what it’s doing in yourbody to help you digest. Because again, otherwiseyou can eat healthy food and still not digest it, absorb it, use the micronutrients theway they’re meant to be used.It can be very complicated. It’s a very sophisticated sort of science, but honestly, it’s theeasiest way I ever found to figure out how to eat. And it’s fun. I taught my kids, theseare all the six tastes. And then we would lookat our food and say, “Did we miss one of the tastes?” Sometimes you just haveto add one little thing and it makes it a complete meal. And that’s again optimizingyour internal healing, because Ayurveda is all about using what your bodyalready knows what to do but things have justgotten in the way of it. Maybe you’re not giving your body what it needs to do the healing process. And again, food is key in that process, but also optimizingthe internal mechanisms that we have for healing. – So Gordon and I talkeda minute before the show, I brought a couple of kale salads and I forgot that he had told me that it would be best tocook some of the kale. I could have one raw kale salad and one partially cooked kale salad, because a lot of peoplecan’t digest raw kale.I’m a big kale fan. I know no one likes to admit that. But then you had a veryspecific answer as to why it is. And so I was thinking about,as you were talking then, people think I can’t eatthat good ingredient, but it might be, they can eat it raw orthey can’t eat it cook. Tell us a little bit about that because you were justtalking about that earlier. – This really gets to whatDr. Patel was talking about, about the digestion. There’s a concept in Chinese medicine referred to as the digestive fire, they call it agni in Ayurvedic medicine. And it really is talkingabout the ability of the body to extract the good things from food, the nutritional components,the healing properties, and to expel the waste product and to do that smoothly and easily. And when we get sick, that ability starts to weaken, and we end up not fully nourished and not able to easily eliminate and holding on to toxins and waste.And so, the mostfoundational thing you can do is to strengthen the agni, it’s to build up the digestive fire. And sometimes when people’sdigestion is very weak, you have to cook your food ina vessel outside of the body, you put the digestive fire into it, in essence, pre-digesting it a little bit, so that then your weakenedpower of digestion can be aided by your cooking method. – That’s also true of fermentingand sprouting as well. Those are sort of pre-digested foods are easier for the bodyto assimilate, right? – Correct. – Yeah, a little bit ofbreaking the food down before you ingest itcan help then the body, so it doesn’t have to do as much. And then as that agni gets stronger, then you may find you can eat things that you couldn’t eatwhen it was not so strong. Although there are somepeople, again in Ayurveda that just naturally don’tdigest raw foods very well. There are these kind ofdifferent mind-body types. And that might not be so good for them if they try to do that. So it’s very interesting. – I thought you raised somethingvery interesting earlier Anita, when you were talking about one of the things you do atGerson is reduce protein intake.And I know from my own research that, Americans on average eatabout five times more protein than the World HealthOrganization recommends, and still twice as much asour own USDA recommends, never mind that we also waste 40%. But importantly, I’m curious about that because protein is one of those things that for some people is harder to digest. So tell me why that’s partof what you do at Gerson. – Yeah, let me put it in the context first of the fact that themajority of our patients are very seriously ill. And I just wanna commentfirst about food too. On the Gerson therapy, cooking methods are a very big part of it. And the food is cooked veryslow and low and waterless. And a lot of peopleexperience it as being mushy, but that that’s purpose ofit’s not only what you eat, it’s what’s importantis what you assimilate, and therefore, for a body that is stressed and already compromised to have that, like you say, pre-digestion done by that.So the protein is a temporary restriction during at least the firstsix weeks of the therapy, because we’re trying to mount in that patientsome healing reactions and some strong detoxing. And then by protein, wemean after six weeks, there could be, for some people, it could be shorter, it could be longer introducing organic lowfat yogurt or some lentils, that type of thing. So it’s still not- – That’s an important point. When we say protein, we always tend to thinkof animal products, but there are lots of vegetablesthat have protein as well. – That’s right.And then also on the therapy, it’s a tremendous amount of food. If a person’s able totolerate the full regime, we were talking about this last night, it’s 20 pounds a day offresh organic produce, but about 15 to 16 pounds of that is because there’s suchan intense juicing regime. And so four carrot juices a day, four apple juices a dayand four green juices. And then the remainder ofthat is still for three meals. – This is very different when, you and I, we talked a little bit about official medical food isused in Western medicine and what that is versuswhat she’s talking about. Tell us what medical food is, not within your practice, but in general. – Well generally, it’s very precise chemically-definedcompositions, supplemental foods that are given to peoplewith a very precise, usually FDA approved definition in mind. – [Michelle] But not real food, then powders, supplements.- They’re almost the diametricopposite of real food. – It’s sort of one ofthose ironies, isn’t it, that medical food in themedical profession is not food. It’s sort of like how vegetables under the Farm Billare specialty products. I mean, it’s one of these things that sort of boggles the mind. – Honestly, the most healingfoods are the plants. The other foods… And it’s not that you haveto be 100% vegetarian, although, there’s a hugeamount of data that shows that whole food plant-baseddiet is the healthiest diet as far as prevention ofchronic illness, et cetera. – I think a lot of peoplefeel sometimes overwhelmed by the information and thesources of information. How do I know what choices to make? What’s right for me or my family? Is there an easy fix or an easy source? And anybody please, wheredoes one go if they say, I wanna do the right thing, and we’re not talking about diets and short-term restrictions, except maybe in the case of fasting.But how do I know whether I’m eating the things that are goodfor me or bad for me? – It is so individual, because for instance, I wasdirected to the GAPS diet when my son’s had severe allergies, but one son was allergic to eggs, the other son was allergic to nuts. And the GAPS diet has alot of almonds and eggs. So that just wasn’t gonna work for us. So I first looked ateliminating the processed foods, taking things away. the processed foods,the sodas and the chips and all of the processed junk foods and adding in fermented foods, because that’s somethingI could easily do. And with the fermented foods, I had to give some gold starsfor a little bit with my son to get sauerkraut into them. But after a while itbecame a habit at dinner. So they are used to now eating sauerkraut withdinner almost every day. And one tablespoon of sauerkraut has a trillion good bacteria in it. That’s a shift for a lot ofAmericans to think about.We think of bacteria as a negative thing. And we really do need tore-introduce this idea of the bacteria and themicrobiome being our friend and something that’snecessary to take care of. So I like to think of, okay, first, the easy step is to getthe junk out of the house. And if there’s a parentout there that says, “Well, but my kid willonly eat these foods.” Well, that’s because you’re buying them. I like to start withreplacing their favorite foods with something that’s healthy and adding in the fermentedfoods to help the gut. – I think you can also add them in in small doses to a meal ora dish they are all used to. – Yes, and you can sneak them in sandwich. You can do all kinds ofthings that are fermented- – [Michelle] The sneaky tips on your side. – Oh, yeah. Kefir cheese and organicyogurt, things like that, that they do like that they will have, you can sneak some goodfermented food in there. – There’s an organizationlocally, Olivewood Garden.And they bring students in to plant and then harvest produce. And then there were agroup of volunteer chefs, and I helped on many occasions. And we would teach them, we’d prepare a food using that vegetable they had just pulled out of the ground. And a lot of the kidsdidn’t know the vegetables and didn’t really wanna try it. And I remember one of the chefs, Julie Darling would alwayssay, there was a one bite rule. You had to take one big bite before you were allowed to say no. I always think of that when I try to, usually it’s my husband.I try to ask him to trysomething that might be green or has kale in it. There’s the one bite rule. And then usually, if you’ve done your job well, then they’ll actually likeit much to their surprise. I wanted to ask yousomething too as a follow-up because some of your work has been really focused on gene expression and how that’s alteredby food, by toxicity, as well as obviously morerecently also meditation. But as we’re talking aboutthe way food affects us, most of us think, calorie in, calorie out, fat, carbohydrate, protein, we’re talking a little bit about within the family of carbohydrates, there are better and worser.But tell us about, that’sjust for this moment I think, “Oh my goodness, should I eat the cinnabun or the oatmeal?” but more specifically, you talk about how “Oh, I failed, dang.” You talk about how it’s not just affectingyou at this moment, but in fact, how genes express themselves and this creates a trajectory. Explain that a little bit for people like myself whoare not science people. – So think about food as being not just those macronutrients, the protein, the carbohydrates, the fats, think of them as intelligence, as information thatinfluences your physiology. So food has that energy, and protein building is value to it, but it also has this ability to give your physiology signals, moves the physiologiesfunctioning in a better direction.And that’s really whathappens with gene expression, is that you’re altering things so that, and those gene expression effects, the effects on the way thatour genes are being expressed can happen in seconds and then go away in the next few seconds. If you eat that cinnabun, there are enzymes, there are genes in your liver that will be turned on immediately. You will produce enzymes that will allow you todeal with that cinna bun, for better or for worse. And it will have to do withaccumulation of glycogen and fat and all that sort of stuff. – So it’s not just affectingyou at that moment though, you’re creating a future path. – That’s the point that comes next, is that when you are eatinga certain kind of diet, it affects your functioning, your gene functioning longer term. Has anybody heard the termepigenetics, epigenetics? What happens with epigenetics is that when there’s a certainimpact on your physiology, the effect of that can actually change the way that your genesare chemically functioning.It doesn’t change the sequenceof the genetic alphabet, but it changes the actual ability of that DNA to be turnedon or expressed or not. And this effect can be long-term. In fact, these effects can be inherited, so that if there’s an epigenetic change that occurs as a result of your diet, that can influence your sonor your daughter’s diet. And when they continue, theycan go on to their children. So these effects can be long-term. And of course, they sort of, if you don’t continue the, what would you say, the stimulus that’s giving rise to it, then it falls off in a few generations. But this is something that strongly affectsthe physiology long-term. And there’s now evidence that this occurs with thepesticides that you eat. Anybody heard of atrazine? Atrazine is one of the mostcommonly used herbicides, it’s used in corn, it’sused in many crops.There’s now research that’s been done showing that the effects of atrazine on, this was done in mice. If you feed a mouse,atrazine in their diet, and then you look, you willsee changes in their genome and behavioral changes. You’ll look at the next generation, those will be there. And you look at the thirdgeneration and they’ll be there. So this happens both fromthe good things in our diet and from the bad things. – This is a little heavy. – Sorry. No, no, but it’s important, because we’re looking at our history of our own choices in life, our families and looking back perhaps. But what’s really greatabout food as medicine is that the choice tochange that trajectory can happen as soon as the next meal.So that’s a beautiful thing. And so that’s what you really focus on, and you as well, like how to flip from andavoid some of the toxins, both in the food, on the food or in the environment generally, and/or how to counteractthat by limiting those toxins and choosing food for health. – And there’s studies thatshow that within one week, 90% of the pesticides werereduced in a family in Sweden that went organic, and within two weeks, 100%were out of their system and out of their body. So it can be done very quickly. – That’s very encouraging, I think. That’s the beauty of it. Maybe you don’t know exactly which foods are right for yourdosha, for your body type. And you might wanna dosome research online or go see a professional. But what you do know is, if you can avoid the badand shoot for the good, then you’re on the right direction. – What you were just describing, Zen, what that says to me is that we have a profound abilityto change our health.And that probably the most singularlymost important thing is, not even worrying so much aboutpesticides or contaminants, but just simply choosing healthy food, because it will be restorative,not quite overnight, but almost so within a week, two weeks. We see changes in thepattern of the gut microbiome in a matter of days. And we can influence this- – They did eat organic though. They were purposely avoiding pesticides. – Sure I’m not advocating thatpeople continue eating even plant foods that are contaminated. But the thing is that,just simply stopping that and replacing it with healing foods that help to bind and taketoxins out of the body and replace them with really good things can have a profoundalmost overnight effect. And with regard to the gut microbiome, we talk a lot about the fermented foods, and I’m a big fan of them, but the singularly mostimportant thing we can do, again, is a whole food plant-based diet that provides the fiberand the resistance starch that nourishes the microbesthat are already there.It feeds the good guysand it doesn’t feed, it actually sort of starves. Well, I don’t wanna use the negative term, but it doesn’t feed the opportunistic ones that overgrow and cause so many problems. So just simply the singularlymost important thing is, change your diet in this healthy way and the effects are profound. – That’s certainly was your experience. This made me think as we’retalking here, this is your life. This is what you did. And what happened to you? – It’s interesting because not, I think a lot of us wanna eat healthy, we hear all these things, we hear GMO, non-GMO, we hear organic better than organic. If you’re in the farming community, some people will tell you that organic has lost its real meaning, all these different kinds of labels that get slapped on everything. We heard them all beforewe started doing this. We shopped organically. When you’re in Guantanamo Bay, you shop with whatever’s there. So it’s a little different.But when we even started growing- – The farmers’ market. – Yeah, yeah. We just got our seedsfrom the local seed story. Didn’t really pay attention to how they were grownand where they came from and whether or not theywere manually hybridized or any of that. And we were growing. And I was having responses to corn, which I’m a California kid. Three real tacos are like apart of every college here. And I was having thissevere reaction to corn. I would have a mini seizure. My face would tick, andwe’re talking very quickly. And then the next handful of days, all my joints would be really sore, I had trouble walking again. And it took us a while to figure it out. And finally, I did justa sensitivity test, not necessarily an allergy test. And it was showing up as like number one, those corn and plumps. And my thought process was, “You can’t not eat cornin the United States. It’s in everything, it’s inyour medicine, it’s in makeup. It’s literally everywhere.” We tried it and we were getting…The medicine, I had to take compounded, and it wasn’t making a difference. And for me, when we talkabout making these changes, there’s the perfect world and then there’s also the,I’m already overwhelmed, I have a diagnosis, I’m just trying to keep my life in order, I just need to knowwhat I have to do today to make sure I get to tomorrow and then I’ll figure out tomorrow. And for me, corn was thething that I was like, “This is absurd. I don’t know how this is. I’m gonna do this the rest ofmy life and really just live.” So I took some time and Iread a lot about heirloom and heirloom varieties and how that people thatwere having sensitivities to even wheat, that they were able toeat heirloom varieties and not have a reaction. So I convinced my husband to listen to me. And we planted a smallpatch of heirloom corn.And when we were harvesting it, my dad and I were standingthere and we peeled it. And Mike stopped me. When I met him he was a paramedic. And he’s like, “My jobhere is to savior you. That’s my job I wear a cap. My job is to save you. If you have a reaction, I don’t ever wanna hear corn again. Like suck it up, we’re done.” And dad and I sat there and pulled it off and we’re eating sweet corn just standing there and no reaction. And literally, within the next two weeks, we pulled everything out andwe converted 100% to heirloom. Because it took it from, I’m not a scientist, I don’t have that background. It took it from allthis stuff that we hear, and this group says thisand this group says that. And it took it from this anecdotal, I don’t know who to believe, everybody’s arguing to the like, “I can tell you if I eat this, my body literally physically reacts in a way people can see and it’s negative.And if I eat this, it doesn’t.” And that’s that change that even with organicit’s one step further. And the hard part withorganic is for a lot of years, all of the genetic testingfor GMO was too expensive for these agencies to even be doing it. So you have grains that peopleare saying they’re organic, but depending when you kindof made that transition, California Organics, I’ve spoketo them just this past year. And they said the tests are cheap. They test every time graincomes into California, because that happens to be a big thing that’s genetically modified, that they’re actually testing it. But the problem is is that, if you’re eating a varietal that is either manually hybridized and you’re allergic to one part of that, pluot is a good example, I’m allergic to plum, so I can’t have pluots. I also have some troublewith some of the tree nuts, ’cause that’s all nut family. So if it’s hybridized with something to giveit a better shelf life, or to give it a differentflavor, and you don’t know that, you’re gonna have a reaction.So for me, going completely heirloom was the change that madethe huge difference. And trust me, as any normal, we have people that say like, “Oh, and let me guess,Amazon’s never at your house.” And like, “You don’t usetoilet paper, you use cloth,” just all this crazy stuff. And I was like, “No, Amazon’son my house everyday. It’s the cheapest way to run a farm.” And I still eat food that’s not heirloom.That’s life. But I can tell you, I canwalk and I’m not twitching and I’m not lifting mylegs at the end of the day when I eat the way that Iknow my body needs me to eat. – Oh, sorry, go ahead. – No, no no, I was just gonna say, you bring up a really interesting point also that we’re alwaystrying to get people to, you can give people guidelines because we have some informationabout general principles, but it’s about listening to your body.And if you eat something, even if your sister oryour whoever, spouse says, “This is really goodand you should eat it,” and your body says, “No.” And if we’re listening, it’ll tell us, then that’s not right for you. And then you try somethingelse and you say, “Oh my gosh, I feelamazing when I eat this.” And then you know that too. And you have to be honest with yourself ’cause our minds can trick us and say, “You’re eating our cinna bunevery day, feeling great.” – The girl scout cookiemessage is incorrect. – I tell people, follow an 80/20 rule, because also we add alot of stress by saying, “I have to 100% of the timeeat this perfect food.” Our body’s pretty resilient when we’re out of thatreally, really sick stage, that we can sometimes have that food. Most of your diet should be like what yourbody is healthiest with.- The important thingthough is to not give up. She pursued it and she wentafter the heirloom corn. You could have just said, “That’s it, no corn ever again.” Like we did with my son, it was no nuts once healmost died from nuts. We said, “No nuts, not ever again.” We were just resigned and doubtful that anything could changeuntil one day he said, Mom, I wish all myallergies would go away.” And I said, “Me too, buddy.” But in my head I was saying,”That’s never gonna happen.” And then I realized, “Wait a second, that’s not empowering. That’s not what I’m committed to. What if something could be different? What if there is some other Ayurveda or some other way to havean opportunity happen and something could happen?” So I asked him, “Would you like to maybe one day eat a slice of pizza at a birthday party?” which he couldn’t do at that time, because we knew a cousinwho had gone gluten-free and eventually she could have it.When she healed her gut,she could have it later on. And he said, “Yes.” And I said, “Well then,would you be my partner? Would you partner with me in your health? Would you drink green drinks and try alternativemedicines and all that?” He said, “Yes.” And I said, “Then I promise you, you’regoing to get better.” And that promise, whetheryou do that for yourself or your spouse or yourchild is very important, because then that has you do things you normally would never do. Like when you go to a doctor and you make that promiseto follow that protocol, you step up and you do things that you normally never would do. So the important thing is to not give up and to keep trying new things and to promise somebody else that you’re gonna do this. – And the easy answer is not always, what we tend to do issay I can’t eat wheat or I can’t eat avocados but let’s remember like,what kind is being grown, and is it a very hybridizedmodernized version, or is it a heritage or heirloom variety? Sometimes they call them biblical.On the other hand, and then therefore, how has it grown? Is it grown organically, is it grown conventionally and/or GMO, which means that it’s likely to carry asignificantly higher toxic load. And of course then again, on top of that, it depends on which kind ofvegetable you’re talking about. I don’t know if you guys are familiar but Environmental Working Group puts out something calledthe Dirty Dozen and they say, “Look, not everybody’s perfect. None of us buys 100% organic all the time or most of us don’t.” And so there are certain foods that are more likelyto carry a toxic load. And these are the onesthey say, buy organic. These other ones, they might still have it but they don’t carry quite the toxic load.So again, it’s not sort of a one-size-fits-allon these things. I had a reaction toallergic type reaction, white blood cell buildup. So my body constantly felt tired and sick because it thought it wasfighting these foreign invaders. And once you go through a process to eliminate and clean and detoxify, then your body is just sortof focused on itself again and can move forward insteadof constantly in fight mode. Is that consistent with whatyou experience in your work? – I wanted to just pick up onZen bringing up empowerment, because we know from the research, that when people are engagedin their own health care, even things like monitoringyour blood pressure your glucose or, so what’s any more involvement than your daily preparation of food? And also, I’ve always heard that if you’re trying to makechanges in your life, a lot of people kind ofgo to all or nothing, instead of realizing that if you’ll make some small steps that can make some big differences.If you just go home and get rid of one ortwo things in your home that you feel is the most destructive or that you don’t feel good about. The other thing too, is to have a plan. And on Gerson, do we ever have a plan? We tell people exactly every hour what you’re doing and what juice and what meal and what things need tobe involved in that meal, and then what you’re gonna do the next day and that kind of thing. But the same thing applies to us in our day-to-day lives too. Nothing’s any moreempowering than to literally “excuse the pun, step up to the plate” and take charge, take charge. – But for some people it is100% at least for awhile, just make that commitment to go 100%. For instance, like gluten, getting gluten or dairy out of your diet, it takes months for thatto come out of your body. So it is important to go 100% as much as you possiblycan and don’t give up. And I do wanna add thatmy son did get better.His allergies went froma 19 down to a 0.2. And so he no longer haslife-threatening allergies to nuts, which typically get worse, not better. And he did that by healing himself. – And I think one of the disservices we do in like really conventionalmedicine is disempower people. And I think the worst thingyou can tell a patient is, this is what’s going to happen. And as an integrative provider I do primary care still,send people to specialists if they need certain tests and then they’ll come back and tell me, “Oh the GI doctor,” they said, “Diet has nothing to do with this.” And it’s like, “Oh my gosh.” – GI doctor who focuses on digestion. – The cancer ward thatserves donuts and cake. – And they’ll say therheumatologist or the whoever said that this is what’s goingto happen with this disease, and so I need to do thismedicine or whatever. I’m kind of on both sides in the sense that I do see what happens when people don’t do anything.And yes, that is true. That would happen if you do nothing. However, if you do thesethings, like change your diet, then you can shift that trajectory, and it doesn’t have to look like that. And just giving people that sense, that our body is constantly changing and that every choice wemake affects that change. It’s a dynamic process. It’s not necessarily justyou’re headed down this course. That may be true if you don’tchange what you’re doing, ’cause that’s kind of how you got here.And so I think just giving people that little sense of empowermentand a different perspective that this is really a dynamicprocess going on right now, like we were talking about, the microbiome can shiftin a couple of days, one bite of food you take canshift your gene expression, and then you start to realize like “Wow, I can reallyaffect what’s happening.” – I think that sometimes thatempowerment is also daunting because then it means that Ihave a responsibility as well. I think these things aresometimes in turmoil, obviously no one here is saying that, anything and everything canbe 100% cured with diet. On the other hand, can you alter the trajectorythat one says that you are on? Dramatically, I think theanswer is clearly yes. It looks like you wanna jump in. – Yeah, there’s really acontinuum of possibilities. There are some diseases where diet probably will have amarginal if little effect, it might help your health in other ways, but not necessarily address the disease.On the other hand, there are some diseases on the other end that are diet-driven, and some of the mostcommon and important ones are very much on thatend of the continuum. – Top two or three, right? – Yes. You were asking before about the concept that I was gonna mention about, the therapeutic order. – Oh sure, your pyramid. – Yes. – No, no, this is good because most of us are used to the sort ofWestern paradigm, which is what drug do I get, orwhat procedure do I need? Let me keep eating myhoney bun or cinna bun. Yours is very different? You’re very different. – Well, years ago, when I studied some of themore ancient healing systems, Chinese medicine Ayurvedic, it was intuitive to methat you started with food, food, and lifestyle and you create the conditionsfor health with these, and then only whenthose aren’t sufficient, do you then go up sort of the ladder or the the pyramid toward increasinglyinvasive kinds of things.If you’re in a car accident, you go straight to the trauma center. You don’t waste your time withdiet and herbs and all that. – Write that down, folks. – If you’re unconscious, that’s not the time to do psychotherapy. Actually, a calming influenceis always a good thing, and healthy food, when a person recovers is the first thing after thecrisis has been resolved. So we have to use really good judgment. But in naturopathic medicine, they came up with this conceptcalled the therapeutic order. And it really holds that diet and lifestyle is the foundation. Most things, before weever even medicalized them and give them a label and scare people with allthis workup and evaluation, they’ll simply resolve if we change the health conditions through diet and lifestyle. And then if that’s not sufficient, we use targeted natural therapeutics, herbs, acupuncture, allopathic medicine, when that’s not sufficient.And then of course- – [Michelle] What’s allopathic medicine? – Allopathic is Western medicine the common understanding of disease or symptom-focusedand pharmaceutically or surgically-basedinterventions at the forefront. – Well, I think this is really important. We’ve been talking a lot about how we might use food to dealwith a particular problem, but again, if we go back tosort of body fundamentals and immune system and gut as the origin of the good or the bad, maybe what we’re doing is we’re creating a leanmean fighting machine so that when the incoming comes, we’re better able to ward it off.Is that true? It sounds really good “StarWars” like, but I like it. That’s so, right? – Children used to play outsidebarefooted on the earth. They weren’t slathered withthe antibacterial soap. As a kid, I ate dirt. I tasted everything on the farm. My mother would wait, she’d seen me coming down the lane and she’d wait with agarden hose to hose me down so that I could go in the house because I would step on anything. I tried to drink waterout of the dog’s bowl. Those kinds of exposure to just those, what we’re talking about. And as we know now, it staysin the soil, so in the gut. So she was very wise in a lot of ways to have given me that freedom. So your immune system is stronger. – I have a very sturdy immune system, yes. Charlotte Gerson tells me that if she had done to her body what I did, that she’d been gone a longtime ago and she’s 96 years old.She’s lived very clean, eating very clean. – And if there is acrisis by living this way, we’ve created resilience within ourselves that will help us enormouslyduring that crisis. – That’s what I wanted tohear a little bit more about, because I think that’s we’re not just talking about, again, if we think aboutdisease or symptom focus, now we’re backtrackingto young healthy people. How do we keep them that way, strong? How does it do that andwhy does that matter? – We really need to start withhow we educate our children, start with what we’re feeding our kids.Maybe that’s the mostsingularly most important thing or place to focus if we want to build a healthy population, a healthy society. – So they have healthyhabits of their own. – And so that for them, theyknow what a vegetable is, they know where it grows, then that helps themdevelop their intuition about how to heal themselvesor what they need to do. – And I think that ties injust lifestyle in general like, are you taking your kids outside or are they inside all the time? And then, is there justoverstimulation and stress, like is a huge factor with digestion, and how you digest your food, your immune system and everything. ‘Cause we teach meditation and lifestyle in addition to food, likefood is a big component. And again, when you’redoing all of these things and you’re reducing the stress response and you’re connecting tonature and all of these things and teaching your kids how to do that, then again, sometimes things do happen, and we do need medicationsfor things and certain people.But your body’s going to be able to use anything you give it in a much better way whenthe foundations are there. – It’s important totrust your children too, that they can do much more than a lot of us think that they can do. For instance, my middleson had autism symptoms when he was about eight and a half, a sudden onset of autism symptoms, hitting and yelling and gradesdropped from As down to Ds and it was not like him. So I took him to the doctor and he tested him for fungusand bacteria in his urine. I said, “Why are you testingfor fungus and bacteria?” He said, “Because oftentimesthe bad gut bacteria can lead to inflammation in the brain, which lead to behavioral issues.” And I saw, “Wow, that’swhat glyphosate does.” That’s what’s in Roundup,that’s sprayed in our food.And it occurred to me thatthat son was eating wheat, which is sprayed withglyphosate or Roundup as a drying agent. It does not wash off, it does not- – [Michelle] And not even GMO, it’s just- – Yeah, it’s not GMO, so wheat, lagoons, beans,peas, tea, sugar, oats are highly sprayed withglyphosate as a drying agent if it’s not organic. And so he was eating this gluten food because my other two sonswere gluten intolerant but he was not. So he was the only onethat was eating gluten. And at that time we testedagain, very important.We tested his urine and his urine was eight times higherof glyphosate levels than was ever found in Europe. And so there was Roundup in my son. And we realized that weneeded to go strictly organic, and he needed to not eat sugar. And this was betweenThanksgiving and New Year’s, and he promised to do that. And he did that and wewent strictly organic 100%. Even like the canned chicken, we had to get that out’cause that’s not organic. And we did put in probioticsand colloidal silver. We did have to do compoundantifungal medicine but that was $650 a month. So when people tell methey can’t afford organic, I remind them the cost of medicine. It is much more expensive. And then within six weeks weretested him for glyphosate, his levels were no longer detectable and his autism symptoms weregone and have never come back. But he did that also by not eating sugar. He made that choice and we trusted that he would do thatin partnership with him.So I think we need to trust our children and our family members. Like if you’re the momor a dad you’re like, “Oh, they’re never gonnachange their diet,” don’t do that to them. Show them the movies like “GMOOMG” or “Genetic Roulette” or there’s a great movieout now called “Modified.” There’s a new movie called”Secret Ingredients.” It’s all about peoplehealing through food. There’s a movie that’scoming out pretty soon called “Food Cure.” So there’s great educational tools that you can use out there, just have faith that they willbe inspired by one of them.- I’m glad that you mentionedsome of the desiccation and the use of glyphosate in that process, ’cause I think a lot of people assume that Roundup is onlyassociated with GMO crops and not conventional crops that haven’t been modifiedto withstand the spring, but all of these grain crops get sprayed at the end for desiccation. And interestingly, if you’re not aware, you can look at, Food Democracy now did some testing ofbasic breakfast cereals. And one of the things thatfor me was most horrific was to see that of all ofthe cereals they tested, the one that had the singlehighest residual rate of glyphosate was ordinary Cheerios. And I think to myself, “What is the one food that every parent inAmerica carries around in a small Ziploc or Tupperware to feed to their child, it’s Cheerios.” And that has a really high toxic load. So there are some foods,and that’s one of them, that you really may wanna payattention to eating organic if you wanna reduce that toxic load and how it might affect you.- It’s very important also that vegan and vegetarians understand that hummus and chickpeas, garbanzo beans had the highest levels along with wheat. So if you’re feeding your child a plate of chickpeas and hummus and they have oatmeal for breakfast, and then they have buckwheatnoodles for dinner, they are eating the highestlevels of glyphosate exposure that you can possibly expose them to. – [Anita] Unless you buy organic. – Unless you buy organic. So it’s very important to notjust be vegan and vegetarian if that’s what you’re doing, but to also purchase organic food too in order to avoid glyphosate. – I think it’s also important to not put the focus just on glyphosate. I’m not saying it’s ahealthy thing at all, but the same kinds of dietary changes that will reduce glyphosate also change the food in many other ways.When you’re eating refined products, they have a thousand things,including glyphosate perhaps, but also many other negative attributes. And so we can’t just pin iton the glyphosate and say, “That’s the evil thing,” ’cause we’re like the seven blind men withthe elephant and saying, it’s just the trunk or it’s just the tail. We really need to think about, and not even focusingon villainizing things, but on focusing in a positive way on what we wanna move toward. And I come back againlike a broken record, to a whole food plant-baseddiet, not a refined diet, but one that has intactColonel whole grains not villainizing them because oh they may contain gluten or they may containglyphosate or whatever, but because they are richin healing properties that nourish themicrobiome from underneath, create that balance, create good gut brain connections, activate genes in the brain, change the expression in the brain that code for neurotransmittersthat make us happy reduce our stress, reduce our anxiety. So changing the dietarypattern in this way, I think is really, I want people to focus in a positive way on what they can do to help themselves and not just what- – Stay on the edges of the grocery store.- Yes. – Can I just touch on- – I agree with you, that’sreally is the foundation, but in this day and age, we need to look to theseindicators of impurity in our food. And we look at glyphosate as being an indicator of other things. In meat products, there are also indicators, a few things that you can measure easily that are are indicators that you don’t wanna eat that chicken, you wanna eat another one. And it’s critical that people be given theability to make those choices. And Zen talks about glyphosate because that’s been an indicator that’s made a big deal, a bigdifference for her family.But we need to go deeper than that. In a way, what we’re finding in our work, because we’ve tested hundredsof products at this point. And what we find is that the difference between conventionaland organic is striking. And so by making thechoice of going organic or growing your own, and especially even goingto the ancient varieties, making that choice howeveryou can personally make it, has a huge effect. So we can then from that foundation begin to make good choicesabout what we eat in there. It’s very important to avoid these things.- I hear and I agree withwhat you’re saying, John. My concern is that if we focusjust on the negative thing, like, ooh, let’s stay away from that in a kind of phobic way, and we don’t put equal or greater emphasis on moving toward healing foods and thinking about the richness and focusing on the diversity of taste and the balance of the foods and understanding thehealing properties within us, we’re gonna compromise ourability for self-healing. So yes, you definitely wanna understand the toxic load of foods, and I’m not advocating them in the least, if anything, that’sone of the first things I warn people against. But I think the emphasisneeds to be a positive one, an affirming one toward life and foods thatare rich in life energy. – This is always an eat this,not that kind of dialogue. This is a bit of a yin andyang kind of conversation. But of course, we’re talking about all the things that you should eat and what they do to the body and how they can createa stronger immune system and how they can deal with evenspecific ailments and so on.You can get down into the weeds, like here’s a foodthat’s good for the brain or the liver, or has greatnumbers of lysine, great. Or you can sort offocus on Michael Pollan, eat food, mostly greens, not so much. I mean, sometimes I always comeback to that again and say, that’s sort of the fundamentals. On the one hand, you don’t wanna get, these are important issues,extremely important issues but you also don’t wannabecome fearful of food. I had someone come overthe other day and said, “I don’t wanna eat your romainelettuce out of your garden. I hear it has E. Coli.” And I said, “Well, not this one. I think, I hope.” But that’s an important point, because we can all focus and agree on, eat real food, notprocessed food, step one. And then we can talk about whole nutritionally dense foods. Great, we all agree.Now as we get down and we say, okay, so then we haveorganic, conventional GMO, we probably all agree on whichof those is the best as well. But I think it is sometimesgood to stay here. We don’t want to make peoplefearful of romaine lettuce. – But then, there was a study out recently that showed that women whowere doing IVF to get pregnant, they were eating fruits and veggies. The ones who ate the fruits and veggies with pesticides on it, hadlower levels of success. So it’s not factual to just say, eat your fruits and veggies. If you really want to be healthy and to get pregnant andto have healthy children, it does need to beorganic fruits and veggies for the best outcome.- Actually, Zen, I wouldtotally turn that around, and I would put veggies way before fruit, and I would put whole grainsand veggies at the top because people have a misconception about what is even healthywithin a plant-based diet. Fruits are important, especially when it’s theright season for them, but we wanna to have greater diversity. And when we’re encouragingpeople to have a clean versions of these and life energyfilled versions of these, I think… I also wonder when you mentioned women who are undergoing IVF and didn’t have as good a result, it may have been a function of what wasin the fruits and veggies they were eating, or maybe they were missingother things in their diet that were healing.They may have also beenthat their awareness of that or lack of awareness of that was a reflection of other things. Were they more likely to be smoking, to be drinking alcohol, to not exercise? So I think we have to be careful to say, oh, it was the non-organicfruits and veggies that was the cause when itwas part of a larger power. – We know that there’s pesticides that cause endocrine disruptionand impact fertility. We know that now,especially with glyphosate. It’s just not factual, I’m just saying, to tell people to eatwhole fruits and vegetables without addressing the issueof pesticides that can… I mean, we have a thousandendocrine disruptors in the United States, Sweden allows three. These endocrine disruptorsimpact fertility sterility. We have sperm quality level of men now is 50% of what their grandfathers were.We have an issue in the United States. And it is primarily stemming from, I believe in many doctorsbelieve now, the toxic burden, and that toxic burden is primarily introducedthrough our population through the food and the water. And that’s coming fromGMO chemical farming. – And other sources. – Those are two, but that’s the primary- – I think that the point that he’s making, and you guys actually areagreeing, but it’s just that as a legal matter, you can’t point to a singlecause in most instances, because our toxic load comesfrom a variety of sources, those are two big ones,but there are others.And it’s one of thereasons why in the law, it’s often hard to provethese kind of cases. – And as a scientificmatter, as an epidemiologist, I know that we have to be careful when we assert this is thecause, that’s the effect when there are multiple potential causes that are associated with oneanother, they go together. And so we really don’t know. I’m not at all arguing forGMOs or for toxins in food, quite the contrary, but to say, that’s the cause, that’s the effect, I get a little concerned. And I think we may weaken our argument or the force of what we’re arguing for because people can find thepotential flaw in the reasoning and then dismiss everythingelse we’re saying. So I want us to be reallystrong in our arguments and really grounded. – Can I put that out a unifying concept? – That we should be goingfor nutrient-dense foods that are lacking the toxins. So you put two things together- Lowest toxic load.And then you’re in good shape. The key thing, it’s easy to say, yes, fruits that areinfused with nutrients. We want all of that. But for the mom or the dad is, “Well, where do I get those? How do I tell if thiszucchini is better than that?” No, no, no, let me finish. The key thing there, is that we do have some indicators. There is quite a lot of research out there indicating that organic is more nutrient-dense than conventional. And also that organic is lower in these toxinsthan conventional. And so it’s pretty illogicalto use that as a big guide. It’s not enough. It really isn’t. And this is what you experienced. – I just wanna go to whatyou said about minute ago about the EnvironmentalWorking Group study and what they have ontheir website, which is, look, I think we have to be honest, I think in a perfect world, eating organic 100% of thetime, and some people are, but not everyone is, and maybe not everyone has access to that.So for the majority of people, certainly in some areas, let’s talk about those things,which we should most avoid, and that includes certainfoods over other certain foods but most importantly,it’s processed foods. So let’s go back to whole foods and talk about how wholefoods nutrient-dense is the way to sort of create this. – I wanna add another attribute though, and that’s, what’s in season, what’s growing in our own backyard, because if we understand thatwe’re eating with the seasons, ’cause if we eat locally we’re gonna be doing that more or less. And we understand that plants have lifeenergy and intelligence. We also understand that that changes over the course of time,over the course of the year.The life energy of plants,where is it in the winter, it’s down in the roots,the leaves have come off, the sap has gone down. The life energy is the tree of the plant and the nutrients follow that. So if we in the winter are eating the more rooty kinds of things, the stored nuts and grains, and we cook them with fire tomake them a more digestible and in the summer we’re eatingmore leafy things and fruits at the right time, we’re gonna be naturally going where thenutrients are the most dense. – Ayurveda really focuseson seasonal eating as well, what you eat in the summer versus the cold or the hot weather.- Absolutely. It can get very, very sophisticated in like even the phases of the moon when you harvest the fruitsand things like that. – That sounds like biodynamic now. – Yeah, yeah. I believe it. Again, just to speak tothe whole conversation. The thing I love about Ayurveda is that you’re always goingback to the basic principles. and the basic principles, unlike when we do detoxes and cleanses, even despite our best efforts, we are exposed, we live in a world that… In Ayurveda, whatever’s out there is in us as well.Like you were saying, your son, we all have these chemicals in us. And there have been studies where we could draw theblood of everyone in the room and you’re exposed to things you didn’t even know were in you, because anything that’shappening out there is our body. In Ayurveda, that is our extended body. When you start talking about that you, I think it brings a littlebit of social consciousness and social awareness to supporting organic and supporting how we’retreating the environment.Not necessarily for a selfish purpose but kind of in a way,because that is our body. And so that’s going to affect us. When we’re cleansing, wesay we’re doing two things, we’re taking out whatisn’t serving the body and we’re bringing inwhat it needs to heal. Those are two really basic principles. And that’s, again,speaking to all of this is, is we wanna remove what’s not serving us and what’s creating disease and blocking our natural pathways and we want to bring innutrient-rich food that’s natural. So we always go back to nature. So again, whether it’s thecycles and the seasons, or whether it’s producingfood as naturally as you can, meaning not puttingmanmade things on there. These are like the core principles. If you can just havethat in your awareness and just be aware everytime you’re choosing food, chances are, you’re goingto be much more on that side of making the bestchoices for your health.- I think as a culture, we tend to be, and San Diego is great. We have a lot of farms here. – More farm per capita thananywhere in America, folks. – You can go to a farmers’ market, I think every day ofthe week, except Monday, is how last time I read it. I think Monday is the, or the one that has the least farmers’- – There’s even a farmers’market here on-campus just down that grass area. – So we have that, but we’re also culturally reallydisconnected from our food. We don’t know our farmer. We think local means California. So if I’m gonna get carrotsfrom Central California, and that’s local, but I can’t get grapes from Baja, because that’s out-of-countryand that’s not local, we’re disconnected.We’re missing something major. When I have people ask me when we have figs ready and they say, “How many days do I haveto wait to eat these?” And the first time I was asked I was like, “What are you talking about? You eat them whenever you want.” And the answer was, “No, I always get them when they’re hard and I have to wait until it get soft.” And I’m like, “Oh, by the way, figs,don’t ripen off the tree. They’re going rotten, eat them.” We’re disconnected from that. Texture’s kind of different but we’re disconnectedfrom that part of it.And then there’s also some information that’s been out there that says like millennial generationis the generation that has, it’s something like less than30% actually know how to cook. And there’s no desire to. So it’s not like they’re refusing. It’s just that there’s no desire to, it’s a different kind of generation and they’re not doing that. All of those things meanthat like it or not, we’re falling on processedfoods in some fashion.They may be better processedfoods because they’re organic. But that part of it, ifall people could do… I still go to treatment everyday, I’m back in treatment. I was in a remission for 18 months. I started back in treatment actually the day Christinaand I launched Farmacy, which was the most ironicthing in the world. But I was there. So I sit and getsignificantly less medicines than I did the first time round,actually very, very little. But that means every daysince we launched it, I’m talking to the other patients and talking to people in areal world life scenario. How we all eat and how we wanna eat is probably like the best of the best and then there’s like life. And their answer is, I don’t know how to cook that. I don’t know how to break down garlic.I don’t know how to make yogurt. I don’t know how to doall of these things. So if I could make that one change. So if I could get rid of the 12 items that I should never buy a conventional and only buy organic, what are those? So I agree with that. I agree that there’s these baby steps that have to get there. And then you realize things like, you eat a tomato that’sfrom your local farmer and that’s the besttomato they grow or have. – The ugly one that’s got appendages. – To me, those are the likeinstant gratifications. So you have somebody that goes “Well, I got this andI’m used to getting that, or I always just get whatever yogurt and it says organic and it’s okay.” And then they start to kind ofgo more to those whole foods and they’re like, “Oh Ican actually make yogurt or I can make my own pasta sauce and get closer towards that.” – I think part of what’s needed here is to draw on both sides of the brain.The scientific reductionistside is very important for making sure we’redoing things carefully, but we also wanna unleashthe artist, our intuition. We wanna get in tuned withthe natural rhythms of nature because that’s telling uswhere the nutrients are. It’s not one juxtaposed against the other. It helps us to understandand to deepen our healing. – Well, we’re about out of time, and I just sort of wannaclose with a final thought. Something my husband often says, there’s a lot of informationthat’s been imparted today from the sort of 30,000 view, perspective and down into the weeds on the positive and onthe potential negatives.And I guess he likes to say that you should neverlet the perfect perfect be the enemy of the good enough. And we all have to make thesteps and take the steps that we’re ready and able tomake at this point in our life. And hopefully, heading toward perfection and on the right trajectory. But we all do the best we can. Listen, keep this conversation alive. We will continue to engage. We’ll bring in the panelists just hashtag Food As Medicineon Twitter and/or Facebook. We wanna keep this going, because I think this is the mostfundamental building block of our own health.And as it turns out, the health of our communitiesand the environment. Thank you for coming. Bye-bye, folks on Facebook. – Thank you so much forwatching this video. Please subscribe for more. And don’t forget about the EPICplant-based nutrition course giveaway that we’re doing in collaboration EqualNow Nutrition Studies. – [Narrator] Everyonestrives to live the happiest, healthiest life they can, but for the vast majority of us, something seems to be missing. At the T. Colin CampbellCenter for Nutrition Studies, we get it. Because if you aren’t taking advantage of the benefits of a wholefood plant-based lifestyle, you’re not getting thefull value out of it. – The vast majority of the people probably they’re really quite confused about this topic of nutrition, which is pretty sad.Because now we know that nutrition ought to be the premierbiomedical science of the future. – [Narrator] You could befeeling better living longer, being kinder to our planet, leaving a better future forthe next generation and more. 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